(Conversation recorded on April 11, 2023)

Show Summary:

In this episode, Dr. Robert Lustig joins Nate to dive into the metabolism of the micro level of human systems - the humans ourselves. Over the last century, accompanying the transformation of our energy systems, our food and consumption patterns have been massively transformed. One of the biggest areas of change is the dramatic increase in sugar consumption. But are our bodies adapted to eating such high sugar, processed foods? What are the health effects connected to this way of eating? And, writ large, how does our metabolic dysfunction as individuals contribute to the energy hungry global Superorganism? What are the systemic drivers that currently prevent a shift towards healthier food systems? Can changing how we eat make us healthier - and thus better equipped to face the complex challenges of the metacrisis?

About Robert Lustig:

Robert H. Lustig, M.D., M.S.L. is Emeritus Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, and Member of the Institute for Health Policy Studies at UCSF. Dr. Lustig is a neuroendocrinologist, with expertise in metabolism, obesity, and nutrition. He is one of the leaders of the current “anti-sugar” movement that is changing the food industry. He has dedicated his retirement from clinical medicine to help to fix the food supply any way he can, to reduce human suffering and to salvage the environment. Dr. Lustig graduated from MIT in 1976, and received his M.D. from Cornell University Medical College in 1980. He also received his Masters of Studies in Law (MSL) degree at University of California, Hastings College of the Law in 2013. He is the author of the popular books Fat Chance (2012), The Hacking of the American Mind (2017), and Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition, and Modern Medicine (2021).

For Show Notes and More: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/69-robert-lustig

00:00 - Guest Introduction
01:38 - What did Robert eat for breakfast?
02:20 - Overview of Metabolical: The Lure and Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition and Modern Medicine
05:50 - Mitochondria and Fructose
09:55 - Comparing two diets
11:40 - Gatorade
13:20 - Parallels to Nate’s work
14:34 - Energy
15:14 - Sugar
15:58 - Trans fats
20:58 - PFAS
21:48 - Obesogens
24:36 - NOVA system
27:50 - Tongue desensitization
28:56 - Chemical and behavioral addictions
32:09 - Connections between alcohol and fructose
35:56 - Robert’s medical practice
37:51 - Autophagy
40:18 - Eliminating metabolic syndrome
44:08 - Changing the healthcare industry
46:40 - Is high sugar intake a personal problem or the corporation's fault?
48:05 - Lucretian swerve
49:38 - Food subsidies
54:12 - Removing subsidies
56:32 - Breaking up monocultures
57:20 - Reducing greenhouse gasses
1:00:02 - CAFOS
1:01:44 - Antibiotics
1:04:40 - Gut microbiomes
1:07:56 - IFIC
1:11:05 - Growing in soil v. dirt
1:15:20 - Selective Breeding
1:16:58 - Advice to minimize metabolic syndromes
1:19:26 - Advice for young people
1:23:14 - What Robert cares most about
1:24:13 - Robert’s magic wand
1:24:40 - What’s next?